Backyard nightmare

[demonseed]

Hello
I just found this forum and hoped that someone will be able to help me. Two years ago we went through 2 landscapers (fired both) spend 40k and still are not happy. They were to make a patio, retaining wall, inground spa and plants. Well the patio turned out ok, the wall is ok but the inground spa did not work and has since been made a spa. We have several issues that I am hoping you guys can help with. I will be doing it myself. I will post photos later. Hers a few questions to start more to come once we get photos up. I am really hoping that you can help us as this is project makes me cry.

1. The patio keeps getting weeds in the cracks... we just picked them 3 days ago and they are back. Is there a way to prevent this? I sprayed them with vinegar which slowly kills them but there were so many. The wife says to dig out all the sand and re do? Seal it? Why do some patios never have this issue?

2. Our waterfall in the photo attached is the old one.. I since had lined it with pond liner and rocks as it leaked like mad.. seems the rocks they used were pours or something? just wondering is there a way to seal rock?

I couldn't get photo to work so here is a link. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/angeleyes88/5722171848/in/photostream)

Thanks in Advance.
Jim

[SCyardman]

Jim,
1. Patio - I assume this is a paver patio. If so there should have been at least 4 inches of compacted aggregate as a base, then 1 inch of sand and then the pavers. A polymeric sand or something like sand with glue mixed in should have been used to fill in the joints. If this was all done correctly you should rarely see a weed. To kill and prevent further weeds do not pull them.. spray them with a mixture of roundup and pre-emergence.
2. Pond/waterfall. The thick pond liner should be under the rocks, then it should not leak. The rocks themselves should not be a part of the leak/noleak equation.
3. Unsolicited advice... It sounds to me like your poor choices are part of the problem. Going through two landscapers and then trying to finish it yourself is an indication you initially took the low bidders. Hiring a quality company, paying a reasonable price, and then letting them alone while they do their work... is the best way to not have regrets.

[demonseed]

Jim,
1. Patio - I assume this is a paver patio. If so there should have been at least 4 inches of compacted aggregate as a base, then 1 inch of sand and then the pavers. A polymeric sand or something like sand with glue mixed in should have been used to fill in the joints. If this was all done correctly you should rarely see a weed. To kill and prevent further weeds do not pull them.. spray them with a mixture of roundup and pre-emergence.
2. Pond/waterfall. The thick pond liner should be under the rocks, then it should not leak. The rocks themselves should not be a part of the leak/noleak equation.
3. Unsolicited advice... It sounds to me like your poor choices are part of the problem. Going through two landscapers and then trying to finish it yourself is an indication you initially took the low bidders. Hiring a quality company, paying a reasonable price, and then letting them alone while they do their work... is the best way to not have regrets.

(This is Jim wife here) I seriously appreciate your response. We will try the roundup and preemergence as you you described for the patio. However, with all do respect hind sight is 20/20. we hired both landscapers that came with lists of referral whom we knew. we paid a fair price and did not take the lowest bidder. your comment about our "poor choices" is offensive. we wish everyday that we could turn back time but we did everything in our power to avoid what happened. Now we are trying to fix it with others advice. Fortunately it's mostly cosmetic now although the emotional scars of being scammed by 2 landscapers I believe will never heal and the constant reminder awaits us in our backyard.

[Chris]

To permanently kill the weeds and keep them from coming back, you need to poison the soil. Salt works, or a chemical edging product. But a bag of rock salt spread over your patio and watered in will kill the weeds and keep them from coming back permanently - assuming you have nothing like trees nearby that may have roots underneath.

[j.parson]

Having gone through some contracting nightmares myself (doing a horrible job and STEALING what they were supposed to be installing) I understand. Hope everything worked out Jim!

[inchworm5]

How is the progress on this DIY project? It seems like it has been a year since you decided to take on completing the project that the contractors slipped up on (and I am really sorry that you had a bad experience, it always saddens me to find things like this) I was wondering if you had any new photos or notes on your progress so far?

[sustainmygarden45]

Building a beautiful landscape really does take time and patience. I hope everything works out. Perhaps the next time you guys hire a contractor you guys should do a little more background research. Yelp is your friend in this situation.

[Mike F in OK]

I know this thread is pretty old, but I couldn't resist posting for anyone that may need it.... when you look to hire a landscaper, I would pay for a set of plans before hiring anyone. Many companies will provide a 3D rendering of a plan or at least one drawn out in photoshop. It's really important to make certain your landscaper truly understands your personality, likes and expectations from the project. I hope your DIY effort resulted in success for you. Mike

[Charm Dreier]

I am a landscape contractor and I hear this kind of thing all the time-- unfortunately the bad contractors give a bad rap for the rest. I agree with Mike F about having some plans drawn up before you get the contractors to build and before you even start collecting bids. This will make the bidding process for the contractors much easier, as they will have the dimensions and the materials laid out for them-- no guess work. The hardest part of my job is when I get to a potential new client's house, and they say to me. "Yes, I want an all new garden, but I don't know what I want. How much is it going to cost?" If you work with a designer in advance, a lot of the guess work is eliminated, and instead of saying, "It's going to cost anywhere from $10,000 to $30,000", the contractor will be able to tap down a logical cost.

The problem with hiring a garden designer or landscape architect to draw up the plans, is a lot of time they have never worked a day in the garden, so they are gleaning all of their plant info from books and what their teacher told them. Most times, the plans that I review have way too many plants in them as the designers don't take into mind the eventual growth size of the plants, or they are trying to give their client instant full-garden satisfaction. This mentality leads to a culling of crowded plants two to three years down the line, and a waste of money-- the original cost of the excessive plants, and then the cost of a gardener thinning them out plus hauling.

Another problem is the varieties of plants chosen. If the designer is just thumbing through a book, and adding plants that they think are pretty or matches the color scheme, they may not understand the viability of said plant. Only a gardener with a few years of hands on experience is going to know how a plant grows in your area, which pests and diseases it is prone to, if it drops a lot of litter, if it is high-maintenance. If you do hire a designer, then hire a different contractor, it would be best to be flexible with the contractor for the ultimate end game as far as the planting is concerned, but hold firm on the hardscape design.

Ideally, you could find a designer/builder to work with, that also has maintenance gardeners on their crew, or come from a maintenance background.

PS: if it is a patio with wide cracks, such as a dry-set flagstone patio, you could use a product called "Gator Dust" to tamp on top of the sand between the stones. After installation, give it a light sprinkle of water to moisten it, and it will take on a mortar like texture. It is fine decomposed granite mixed with mortar dust, and tends to last a couple of year before cracking, and will need refreshment then, but it will definitely keep the weeds at bay in the mean time.